The reason I think we should stop all support to Israel is that they are illegal immigrants and never paid for almost any land.
Like Netanyahu, they are mostly from Poland and Russia, and of Turkic descent.
Israel's War on Civilization
- Thread starter sear
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The reason I think we should stop all support to Israel is that they are illegal immigrants and never paid for almost any land.
Like Netanyahu, they are mostly from Poland and Russia, and of Turkic descent.
Alright.
To whom should payment have been made?
To the prior owners?
OK
Do they have a deed?
Yes, the Palestinians have registered ownership of all the land.
That is because the Ottoman Empire needed records so they could know who to tax.
The problem is after Menachem Begin blew up the British peacekeepers in the King David Hotel, then Irgun, Stern, and Lehi started massacring native villages like Deir Yassin.
So then millions of Palestinian fled the violence, to Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria, and Israel has never allowed them to return to their homes.
{...
The Palestinian right of return is the political position or principle that Palestinian refugees, both first-generation refugees (c. 30,000 to 50,000 people still alive as of 2012) and their descendants (c. 5 million people as of 2012), have a right to return and a right to the property they themselves or their forebears left behind or were forced to leave in what is now Israel and the Palestinian territories (both formerly part of the British Mandate of Palestine) during the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight (part of the 1948 Palestine war) and the 1967 Six-Day War.
The right of return was initially formulated on 27 June 1948 by United Nations mediator Folke Bernadotte. Proponents of the right of return hold that it is a human right, whose applicability both generally and specifically to the Palestinians is protected under international law. This view holds that those who opt not to return, or for whom return is not feasible, should receive compensation. Proponents argue that Israel's opposition stands in contrast with its Law of Return that grants all Jews the right to settle permanently, while withholding any comparable right from Palestinians. The government of Israel, and its supporters, state that Palestinian refugees do not have the right of return under international law.
There is also significant concern about the demographic impact of the return of 5 million Palestinians to Israel, whose population is nearly 10 million. Some Palestinians, including Yasser Arafat, have supported limits on the right of return to accommodate Israel's demographic concerns.
...}
Palestinian right of return - Wikipedia
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Having a legitimate owner is essential, but insufficient on its own.
For Israel to legitimately buy, the legitimate owner would have to be willing to sell.
I'm not sure that's going to happen. BUT !
In centuries past scorned minorities could be elbowed aside, outcast to no man's lands. Is there anywhere on Earth like that in the 3rd millennium?
Shiftless2
Well-known member
It's not just weapons. It's things like bulldozers that are being used to destroy Palestinian homes.
And what happened?
And what happened?
Indeed.
That's a major portion of my reasoning for:
$Money is fungible.
And btw, the notion that "NEVER AGAIN" means only for benefit of Israelis, or Jews is a shocking, tragic misinterpretation.
That Israel / Jews are now the perpetrators compounds the horror.
The odd part is that the Hebrew spent 400 years happily in Egypt, so that is really their main ancestral "homeland".
Alright. We could treat that as complete. But
is there an important message being missed here?
Does Israel claim their current territory as their ancestral home?
<<<<<< >>>>>>
Not for me to say, but I can't dismiss the notion that 21st century Israelis might benefit from honoring their history by:
a) embracing their nomadic roots,
b) honoring their sacred sites while also
c) sustaining their nomadic heritage by finding a place on Earth where they could live on uncontested land, in sustained peace & prosperity.
The message we're getting from Tel Aviv is, perpetual carnage is better than embracing their nomadic heritage.
Is that ridiculous?
Israelis try to lie and claim Palestine is their ancestral home, but it clearly can not be true.
If it were, then they would not have left and gone to Egypt, since there was never a drought along the Jordan River in the Levant.
The only drought that would have driven them to Egypt, was in the Sinai.
So likely that was where the Hebrew came from before Egypt.
I do not mind the Israelis immigrating to Palestine, but then they should have bought and paid for land to build on.
Instead, it seems they are just driving off native Palestinians and stealing homes?
Seems to me each new atrocity can be blamed / justified by some previous atrocity. How many times can you peel an onion?
An objective mediator / benevolent arbitrator may be the most likely prospect for permanent resolution.
That apparently means either a Martian scholar (don't hold your breath waiting for that), - OR -
perhaps A.I. ?
note:
The U.S. has been cast to that role in decades past.
U.S. bias favoring Israel doesn't even qualify as an open secret. The Palestinians know it.
Apart from occasional glimmers of hope like Carter / Sadat / Begin, the U.S. may have done more harm than good there, as our international arms sales reap predictable results.
Weren't both Sadat & Begin assassinated?
If Begin had been prosecuted for blowing up 100 British peacekeepers in the King David hotel in 1946 and gunning down Folke Bernadotte, the UN moderator, in 1948, then things may have been very different.
But since later Menachem Begin was voted in as Prime Minister, I tend to now condemn all Israelis.
The most frustrating things is that since I am Jewish, I am aware of the 136 AD Rabbinical Diaspora Decree, telling all Jews to leave the Mideast and atone for the sins of arrogance and pride.
Zionism desecrates the thousands of years of atonement by real Jews.
I'm not a persuasive advocate for non-legitimate causes.
I don't generally criticize benevolently intended edicts. But,
Logic & practice are not always identical.
Steve is not his brother's keeper. BUT !
If Steve's neighbor Bruce conducts himself disgracefully,
and both Steve and Bruce are dark-skinned minorities among a largely light-skinned population,
wise Steve understands Bruce's disgraceful behavior reflects badly (even though wrongly) on the entire dark-skinned segment of the population.
What has that to do with R5?
You are to be commended for having the conscience to note your proximity to the Rabbinical Decree.
You should not be faulted if you complied with it. BUT !
Should you be condemned if you don't?
It's a complicated world.
If you can answer respectably for your own conduct, there's no shame in your not fully atoning for the transgressions of history.
If that's the issue, take a chill pill. - OR -
To honor the once a year date 4/20, blow a doob?
But the Rabbinical Diaspora Decree of 136 AD was not just to atone for historical things like Joshua massacring the Canaanite women and children at Jericho.
It was the rabbinical realization that the primary Judean concept of the "Chosen People" having a divine right to whatever "Promised Land" then want, is horrific.
The point of the Rabbinical Diaspora Decree of 136 AD was not to atone for past sins of others, but to fundamentally reject the ongoing elitism that was harming others and causing so much animosity towards Jews in the future.
By 136 AD, smart Jews could see the pattern, where the Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Seleucids, and Romans had all hated the Jews.
When everyone in history has hated your group, then you have to consider looking at what your group has done to cause that.
"Jewish guilt"?
If you were Israeli, occupying (former? / ill-gotten?) Palestine, amusing yourself by picking off Palestinian children at play in the rubble with your AK-47
there'd be obvious room for self-recrimination.
What Israel has done, is doing today reflects on all Jews. I can understand that.
But based on the George Will quotation in #152, you may wish to confine resultant anxiety to within astronomical limits.
"Reputation is what people think of you. Character is what God knows of you." displayed outside church, Little Falls, NY 09/98
Within reason, perhaps.
You can't unring the bell.
Blaming the nearest Jew for the historic transgressions of all of them is called "bigotry".
Oh how marvelous if only one Jew were victim to such bigotry.
It actually is even worse.
I have seen judges, lawyers, bankers, insurance adjusters, etc. all show bias if they are Jewish, towards other Jews.
It is a little embarrassing even.